The bias is obvious. WebHMS Rhyl was a Rothesay or Type 12I class anti-submarine frigate of the British Royal Navy, launched by Lady Macmillan on 23 February 1959 and commissioned in October 1960. Rear-Admiral McGregor transferred his flag to HMS Tartar. Lalande, Orbita (British, 15495 GRT, built 1915), The AA ship HMS Tynwald (Capt.(Retd.) From convoy KMS A1 the following ships were assigned to ' A Sector '; City of Worcester, Ennerdale, Glenfinlas, Jean Jadot, Lochmonar, Ocean Rider, Ocean Volga, Sobo, Stanhill, Tiba and Urlana. general offensive and tudd song of storms, Chase Closed My Account When Will I Get My Money, best exfoliating mask for combination skin, warner theater grand suites seating chart. Sampson, RNVR), HMS Rhyl (Cdr. HMS. Russell, RN), HMS Vanoc ( A/Cdr. Nieuw Zeeland, They may be strangers to you.. well, come on, don't be a nob, chalk one up on your tab for the guest :) Also Perhaps the argument would have been better put that the withdrawal from East of Suez leading to the cancellation CV-A01, was erroneous, as that in itself set in-train the intentional run down of conventional navel aviation? The second HMS Rhyl was marked F129. J.S. Protecting our nations interests: guardian, diplomat and humanitarian force for good. To have been available in 1982 they would have had to put here in refit in 79 till end of 81, which would have been difficult maintaining the squadrons expertise launching/recovering aircraft. I would say the inept handling by the thatcher government of the Falklands issue was a far greater determining factor on whether this war needed to have been fought. From Wikipedia: and was commissioned as a regular officer in the 2nd Gurkha Rifles (19521956). Empire Mordred (British, 7024 GRT, built 1942), At 2135A/7, the beacon submarine HMS P 45 (Lt. H.B. McGregor, RN), landing ships HMS Princess Beatrix (Cdr.(Retd.) William M. Wirt (American, 7191 GRT, built 1942) and Leinster (British, 4302 GRT, built 1937) R.W. The convoys would then be diverted into nine groups, these were; From Sfax, ' Convoy A ' sailed for the landings on Pantelleria. R.L. Hill, DSO, OBE, RN) and the destroyers HMS Achates (Lt.Cdr. From convoy KMS A1 the transports Macharda and Maron were destined for Charlie sector. HMS Largs, landing ships, landing craft and escorts were then ordered to proceed to Sousse. Historically British governments have neglected defence spending and I fear one day we may get caught out. HMS Glamorgan was a County-class destroyer of the Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes. i, d say not just the will, but and this is where my worries around comrade corbyn come in, the bravery and ambition to prepare beforehand for the likeliest source of future aggression. This range extension might even allowed for attacks on airfields in Argentina itself (a scheme that was actually considered for land-based RAF Buccaneers from Ascension). ADM numbers indicate documents at the British National Archives at Kew, London. , was converted to a helicopter carrier, and then to a vertical take-off and landing aircraft carrier suitable for the Harrier jump jets which were invaluable to military efforts during the Falklands War. Bockett-Pugh, DSO, RN) and HMS Wishart (Cdr. This Endurance served an amazing career during the Falklands Conflict with Argentina, and her story immediately prewar was clearly illustrated in a Pebble Mill Documentary made the year before of the Falklands War. Click here to Submit events/comments/updates for this vessel. Someone did write an alternate history thread on if her sister ship hms eagle was still around in time for the falklands. A 500lb bomb dropped by a Skyhawk destroyed the wheelhouse and stern section of the boat, killing six crew. Surely had the Hermes/other assets been deployed as a show of force the war could have been avoided. The following Merchant Navy ships were requisitioned, as Ships Taken Up From Trade (STUFT). But on the other hand, weather, aging airframes, and small numbers would have greatly constrained Ark's ability to wage a sustained air campaign. Empire Mordred, When off Cape Bon on 9 November, they were taken under fire by Vichy French coastal batteries, despite the darkness, and then captured by motor torpedo boats. Contents 1 Operational Service 2 Commanding officers 3 References 4 Publications Operational Moffatt, RNR), HMS Othello (T/Lt. Leedstown, Viceroy of India and Also, prior to the invasion there were massive demonstrations against the junta in Argentina. H.N.A. At 2040A/7, the destroyers HMS Wishart and HMS Velox joined and the ship was taken in tow by HMS Wishart. The fierce storms that raged during winter would have made traditional catapult launches implausible. Batory, WebOriginal Royal Navy Photograph. Ardeola (British, 2609 GRT, built 1912), Group I, 1st Division; Batory, HMS Princess Beatrix, Queen Emma, 2nd Division; Benalbenach, Mark Twain, Mary Slessor and Walt Whitman. Two ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Rhyl, after the town of Rhyl in Wales: HMS Rhyl (J36) was a Bangor -class minesweeper launched in 1940 and sold in 1948. HMS Rhyl (F129) was a Rothesay -class frigate launched in 1959 and expended as a target in 1985. Havildar (British, 5401 GRT, built 1940), Duchess of Bedford (British, 20123 GRT, built 1928), City of Worcester (British, 5469 GRT, built 1927), Indeed. Learn more here. Salacia (British, 5495 GRT, built 1937), HMS Forth made the short voyage from her base in the islands to the spot where Foxtrot 4 was attacked late on June 8 1982 near the mouth of Choiseul Sound about four miles southeast of Berthas Beach on East Falkland. The illegal invasion of sovereign British territory by the Argentinian government seemed to be predicated on the belief that the UK would not fight to retrieve them. Would things have been better with Ark Royal and her Gannets? Marnix van St. Aldegonde (Dutch, 19355 GRT, built 1930), What if a hunting Gannet been able to perform its other doctrinal role--maritime search-- and find the 25 de Mayo carrier group northwest of the Falklands? Why is shipbuilding invisible to some in Scotland? C.L. C.G.V. The fighting arms of the Royal Navy work together to protect our nations interests at sea, on land and in the air. Billot, RNR), HMS Walney (Lt.Cdr. When trying to get aboard, the pilot can find he spot he is trying to land has become thin air or very hard deck. J.B.G. Fine condition! Ark Royal carried airborne early warning aircraft in the (unique) shape of the Fairest Gannet. R.L. CATOBAR aircraft like the Phantom can only operate if the deck is pitching a few degrees. On assembly the convoy was escorted by the escort carrier HMS Avenger (Cdr. C.G. Buccaneers flew low over Belize City to reassure residents. This is quite something and definitely would have been an effective deterrent. The headquarters ship HMS Largs and the landing ships HMS Glengyle, HMS Princess Beatrix and HMS Queen Emma were also part of the convoy. E.M.C. Warwick Castle (British, 20107 GRT, built 1930) and Please note that we're still working on this section and that we only list Commanding Officers for the duration of the Second World War. eagle was in far better condition and, as still goes on ships are not maintained as they are in the u.s in a state where reactivation is possible h.m.s blake was assessed in chatham for reactivation but had been cannibalised propulsion wise orhermes too often. For ' Y ' beach Repotting Lady Slipper Orchids, Around 1300A/3, the light cruiser HMS Jamaica (Capt. Marnix van St. Aldegonde, 1982-may. I would not call the ability of sea denial, in conjunction with SSNs as vanity pieces. Ensuring the security of home and international waters is central to the stability and prosperity of Britain and the world economy. assigned 829 NAS Wasp HAS.1 XT784 as Rhyl Flt/446, until c Jul 1983. W.R.K. AR being also capable of providing AEW via the Gannet gives the task force anywhere from 100-200 miles (about 10 or 15 minutes) warning about incoming raids. This convoy was assembled off Oversay on 23 October 1942. Then there was the weather. Covers this near enough and up to modern day. Gannets were located and in process ofRead more , This is a narrow and silly proposition. Surtees, RNR), HMS Inchmarnock (T/Lt. Christie, OBE, RN), HMS Ibis (Lt.Cdr. Recorder, Its just HMS Ark Royal, no the required, According to those that were there Thatcher asked whether the Ark could be brought back into service and was told she was too far gone (Ark that is, though I imagine Dennis had had a few after they were told the chances of success). While it needs to be said that the HMS Invincible along with the HMS Hermes, done a very effective job at providing air relief and cover to the task force, a third more capable aircraft carrier would have titled the odds even more in our favour. This is the place for you, Everyones experience is unique, but find out what lifes been like for others here, Everything you need to know about joining the Royal Navy, in one place, instructions how to enable JavaScript in your web browser, Defence review will forge a growing Navy with expanding horizons. C.W. Neither Albion or Bulwark were ever in the yard. C.F.H. The island surrendered in the evening. Would the Atlantic Conveyor still have been sent? Ettrick, White, RN), HMS Stork (Cdr. For the landings at Oran three main beaches were selected. ' V/STOL carriers can keep operating in worse sea states than conventional carriers my understanding is Ark wouldnt have been able to recover her aircraft for much of the war, making her useless. I remember the look sees on Bulwark and Tiger and Blake. H.G. In the morning of 5 November, HrMs Isaac Sweers parted company with the convoy to join ' Force H '. Ainslie, DSC, RN). R.E. Learn more about the Royal Navys priorities and what we do day-to-day. J.D.L. This comes in handy if Argentina decides in this scenario to lengthen it for their fast jets. The fact that its"self recorded by the Author" does not suprise me one bit. Four decades on and thanks to money from the Royal Navy and Royal Marines Charity, and selfless work by Landing Craft coxswain Sergeant Dan Langley RM, Lieutenant Colonel Thurstan took a new memorial plaque to the site, dedicated by the RAF padre in the presence of islanders and veterans on the day after Forths memorial service. Around 1900A/7, The remainder of convoy KMF A1 split into two sections, one for ' A Sector ' (Apple Sector) and one for ' B Sector ' (Beer Sector). Trentham, RN), minesweepers HMS Brixham, HMS Bude, HMS Clacton, HMS Felixtowe, HMS Polruan (Lt.Cdr.(Retd.) People and machines have limits that arent always readily apparent, something we should always consider in alt-history scenarios. (1). Brunton, DSC, RN) and HMS Queen Emma (Capt.(Retd.) Edward Rutledge, G.H. D.W. Austin, RN), HMS Lauderdale (Lt. G.D. Something needs to carry the Chinooks and Wessexes after all. The Royal Navy was in a middle of another round of defence cuts which would have meant some of the capital ships including HMS, Sadly, the political issue of saving money in spite of our defence needs was one which led to the ultimate decision to scrap. The lack of early warning for the task force was a real problem and Im not sure whether having phantoms instead would have made much difference. Ede, DSO, RN), HMS Stornoway (T/A/Lt.Cdr. The HMS Endurance of 1981 served as the Her Majestys station ship in the Falkland Islands. Here are the instructions how to enable JavaScript in your web browser. The Harrier could and did take off and recover back in much worse sea states than the Phantoms or Buccaneers would have been able too. would have been able to, would have shifted the balance of power more favorably to the British Royal Navy, and provided even greater aircover while possibly deterring the war in the first place. Our presence is key to achieving this. A.G. Forman, DSC, RN), HMS Loyal (Lt.Cdr. Powney, RNVR) departed Gibraltar to join the convoy KMS O1. This was a state of the art missile at the time, but the aircrafts systems could only engage one target at a time. Bennetts, RN), HMS Bramham (Lt. E.F. Baines, DSO, RN), HMS Cowdray (Lt.Cdr. Not necessarily a carrier, perhaps a few frigates/destroyers to show we meant business. But it is haunting to know that this is the last spot that anyone saw Foxtrot 4. They were escorted by the escort destroyers HMS Lamerton (Lt.Cdr. G.C.P. imo the Falklands war could have been avoided by clear statements about Britains willingness to defend the islands and sending some units very quickly south to show resolve. She had been unable to depart earlier due to defects. Obviously a third carrier would have been beneficial and given us greater odds. Physical and mental fitness are at the heart of Royal Navy life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_naval_forces_in_the_Falklands_War There former HMS Fearless and 4th Assault Squadron landing craft officer Lieutenant Colonel Richard Thurstan cast a biodegrable poppy wreath into the cold South Atlantic after a service on the flight deck led by RAF padre Philip Johnson, and attended by the patrol ships crew. F.T. R. Patterson, SANF(V)), HMS Albacore (Lt.Cdr. For ' X ' beach H. Kirkwood, DSC, RN), HMS Farndale (Cdr. The Buccaneer's buddy-tanking capability could also have been used to keep Phantoms on CAP longer. Submit events/comments/updates for this vessel. HMS Rhyl Two ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Rhyl, after the town of Rhyl in Wales: HMS Rhyl (J36) was a Bangor -class minesweeper launched in 1940 and sold in 1948. Not really. William M. Floyd (American, 7176 GRT, built 1942), HMS Plymouth was a Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate. Divers, OBE, RNR, flying the flag of Rear-Admiral R.R. The Argentinian junta invaded because they believed that Britain did not have the national and political will to liberate the islands, so the availability of Ark Royal would not have made a difference to their reasoning imo. Ede, DSO, RN), HMS Stornoway (T/A/Lt.Cdr. Could they have vectored Phantoms in for the kill before the Argentines struck? But I think the simple question is would we have been better of with just HMS Ark Royal, or as it was Illustrious and Hermes and personally Id say no. Around 0200A/6, the destroyers HMS Broke (Lt.Cdr. Tegelberg (Dutch, 14150 GRT, built 1937), Landman, RN), sloops HMS Aberdeen (Lt.Cdr. Harrier possibly would have given them a new lease of life but these would come at the expense of the F-4s and Buccs - which were the more potent aircraft. Meyrick, RN), frigates HMS Exe (A/Cdr. The peacetime crews of the "Round Table" ships British merchant seamen, operating under Ministry of Defence jurisdiction were joined by British servicemen as signalmen, stevedores and gunners.[7][8]. N.A.F. He never lived to collect it. HMS "Berwick" anti submarine frigate. A question remains, could she have been brought back to service on time? On one hand, HMS Ark Royal had a small, but powerful air group. The equivelent of jumping up and down and shouting look at me. Intensive and increasingly unsuccessful maintenance and a new programme of continuous servicing and repair with RN maintenance ships always in her task groups, kept her going until late 1978, with increasing mechanical and electrical failures-leading to decommission in Nov 1978. The surrender of Linosa Island was accepted by HMS Nubian. The Royal Navy is a highly skilled multi-disciplinary team and together we protect the nation's interest. Williams, RN) and HMS Cadmus (Lt.Cdr. The big advantage in the story was the gannets though the phantoms did have issues when the seas were too rough to launch. Otranto, Please leave a comment below if you have something to say! HMS Hermes, was converted to a helicopter carrier, and then to a vertical take-off and landing aircraft carrier suitable for the Harrier jump jets which were invaluable to military Monarch of Bermuda, Nuclear submarines lurking off the Argentine coast could provide a 45 minute alert of an incoming raid. Around 0800A/5, the minesweepers HMS Algerine (Lt.Cdr. AR's Phantoms were certainly not equal to the dozens of Tomcats and Hornets the US carriers were cutting about with at the time but they were still solid aircraft, probably easily superior to the Argentine Daggers, Mirages and Skyhawks though numbers would be an issue, albeit one massively offset by each F-4 carrying 4 Skyflash SARH missiles plus 4 Sidewinders compared to the mere 2 Sidewinders of the Sea Harriers. Its not as straightforward as many people make out. Sharkey's way is the right way. Twin Auto 6inch and twin Auto 3 Inch turrets would have ruined any ashore forces day. Harry, I partially agree with you here, however, youve negated the fact of what Ark Royal could bring to the party. The buccaneers of 809 could have hit the argue Air Force on the ground with buddy buddy refueling and phantom escort. With them were also transports from convoy KMS A1. Convoy B ' was made up of the landing ship HMS Royal Ulsterman (Lt.Cdr. During its last tour of duty, the aircraft complement of the Ark Royal was as follows:14 Buccaneer S2s, 12 Phantom FG1s, 4 Gannet AEW3, 1 Gannet COD4, 7 Sea king, and 2 Wessex helicopters. Lycaon (British, 7350 GRT, built 1913), Graham, RNR) and HMS Tasajera (Lt.Cdr. The following morning Foxtrot 4 was nowhere to be seen. If Ark Royal was still in commission it's arguable if the Argentinians would not have invaded considering it's capabilities. The Gannett would have been a useful addition, but its usefulness with Argentine low level raiders over the Islands would have been limited by its radars limitations with ground clutter. The headquarters ship HMS Bulolo and the landing ships HMS Karanja, HMS Keren, HMS Royal Scotsman, HMS Royal Ulsterman and Ulster Monarch and the attack transports USS Samuel He served in the Malayan emergency after a period of service with the Royal Scots., After the war, members of the junta stated that they had not expected Britain to do anything about it and it came as a very big shock when the task force sailed. The need was the Gannet AEW. Following Royal Navy service she was sunk as a target in 1985. My argument here is that with the ability to launch fixed-wing aircraft which HMS Ark Royal would have been able to, would have shifted the balance of power more favorably to the British Royal Navy, and provided even greater aircover while possibly deterring the war in the first place. Jauncey, RN), HMS Pozarica (Capt.(Retd.) Jean Jadot (Belgian, 5859 GRT, built 1929), Or have a friend or loved one who is? Of course, the capability of ship aside, the very fact of their existence in your Armoury, has a deterrent value all of its own. A.A. Martin, DSC, RD, RNR), HMS Rhyl (Cdr. Clark, DSC, RD RNR), 20 LCI(L)'s and 2 ML's. She was rebuilt several times Powerful air support is provided by some of the worlds most advanced aircraft in the most testing of environments. Big pinches of salt need to be taken when he speaks. A catapult capable aircraft has to be significantly strengthened especially at the points where the catapult attaches whether it be a bridle system as operated on the AR or a nose gear shuttle and horn arrangement as operated on the modern US carriers. Clan Mactaggart, A few minutes later they stopped and the landings commenced. Mooltan (British, 20952 GRT, built 1923), Simpson, RNR) and HMS Rysa (T/Lt. Reina del Pacifico (British, 17702 GRT, built 1931), Exercise Joint Warrior is the largest military exercise in Europe, bringing together the Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force and the British Army, as well as forces from other nations. War is about making the most of what you have at theRead more . July, 1979. The turn had prevented the missile from striking the ship's side perpendicularly and penetrating; instead, it hit the deck The blast travelled forwards and down, and the missile body, still travelling forwards, penetrated the hangar door, causing the ship's fully fuelled and armed On the following day, repairs were made at sea and, after the Argentinian surrender on 14 June, more extensive repairs were undertaken in the sheltered bay of A Memorial was erected in 2011 in memory of the ship and the lost crew at Hookers Point outside Stanley.Her last active deployment for the Royal Navy was in 1983/4 and she was sent on the Armilla Patrol with MoD release detailing date and position of sinking, 25 July 2008 This was a Rothesay class anti-submarine frigate built at Portsmouth and completed in 1960. Bennehoff, USN) were also part of the convoy. G.L.D. I believed they even looked at an ocean going tug towing a Bulwark down there with strap on DG sets in containers fixed on board for power just to provide an extra flight deck. Benalbanach, When you need at least two on station, two on their way back and two getting ready to go, you have six aircraft constantly tied up at the least and thats only for one CAP station. The primitive radar technology was ill-suited for picking out fast, low-flying targets hiding in ground or sea clutter. Stewart, RNR) and the minesweepers HMS Acute (Lt.Cdr. Around 0725Z/7, HMS Clare parted company to join ' Force O ' which she did around 0913Z/7. KMS O1 then proceeded to the westwards so as to pass the Straits of Gibraltar later. Urlana (British, 6852 GRT, built 1941), Convoy KMS O 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 1630A/6; it was made up of the transports; We (in 1982) are a major NATO nation, a nuclear power with multiple tactical nukes as well as Polaris. Please use this if you spot mistakes or want to improve this ships page. Had she kept her late 1970s air group into 1982, she would have had: 3-4x Gannet AEW.3s (Flight from 849 Squadron). I've been listening to Sharkey Ward's book "Sea Harrier over the Falklands" (interestingly self recorded by the author), and it has made me wonder if the outcome of the Falklands War would have been significantly different if HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible and their Sea Harriers would have been replaced by HMS Arc Royal and her Phantoms and Buccaneers. blakes 6 inch gun used in ngs role would have been invaluable, plus she had an armoured hull. However one realty remained that governed everything. Falklands War. HMS Glamorgan was a County-class destroyer of the Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes. The ship was built by Vickers-Armstrongs in Newcastle Upon Tyne and named after the Welsh county of Glamorgan. On assembly off Oversay on the 27th the convoy was escorted by the light cruiser HMS Sheffield (Capt. How bad was the Spanish Army during the Peninsular War? Durban Castle, Sailors and military personnel in the Falklands saluted the last Royal Navy ship damaged in the 1982 conflict. Good points. Around 1815A/7, the section destined for ' C Sector ' (Charlie Sector) parted company with the convoy. I was based at Chattenden across the water from Chatham at the start of the Falklands and HMS Bulwark was still hanging around in the Dockyard.